Male Bonding2
For those who like to explore the concept and dynamics of male bonding. Men are socialized in different ways in different societies, and so many men would like to have close male friendships, yet after spending time establishing a career, primary relationship and live in general, find themselves without close male friends. Many of us want male friends with whom we can share openly without...
- created by AZdesertman
Male Nudity and the Collective Unconscious
Return to DiscussionsFriends, First, thank you for the active conversations and interaction going on in the group here. That sharing in itself is a great form of male bonding.I saw this article and thought it might be good to share for the conversations going on in this group.clothesfreelife.com/2013/04/05/male-nudity-and-the-collective-unconscious/
Male Nudity and the Collective Unconscious.
I have been thinking about the greater amount of men versus women who are practicing nudists. After viewing a couple of vintage videos that showed that up until recently is was much more socially aceptable for men than women to participate in nude activities. I wondered if male nudity is something embedded deeply in the collective unconscious of humanity.
The is a concept developed by psychologist Carl Jung. It posits the idea humanity has collective unconscious mind that independently shapes and organizes human experiences. This consists of universal inherited preexisting forms, images and representations shared by every culture and group of people in human kind. When these representations are personified Jung calls them Archetypes. Following that thought I am suggesting that one of those universal representations is the nude male.
Throughout history the image of the nude male has bubbled up from the collective unconscious to symbolize many things in many cultures. I think that it is this unconsciously pervasive cultural image of the male nude versus our female counterparts that drawsmaybe even drives us males towards nudist practice. This same phenomenon may be present in the historical practice of societal covering of women, even in cultures where the people tend to be less dressed than those of us in western culture.So if this image is so embedded in our collective unconscious minds, what accounts for the modern day aversion to the nude male body? The representation of the nude male was and is always symbolic of something in each era. It has been symbolic of the warrior, athletic perfection, sexual prowess and more. But as human beings have developed and evolved the unencumbered body in battle has been replaced by the armored body. Athletes are covered with the perfect tools for modern day sports. For the most part the modern day symbolism of the nude male has become exclusively attached to sexuality.
This is where the tension reflected in modern western society arises.The unconscious universal and dare I say a naturally positive image remains. However, it is being overshadowed by a modern conscious perception that is only a partial expression of the more wholistic unconscious representation. In modern western culture the loss of connection to this deep natural and universal acceptance of male nudity has had significant effects on society. It has led to a hyper sensitivity to the nude body, both male and female. Images of both the male and female body have become hyper sexualized driven more by modern ego perceptions than the true self. This in turn has lead to all kinds of body image issues with women especially, but also men. See the prevalence plastic surgery to modify unacceptable body part, (including increasing genital modification surgery among women). Hear the concerns of men unwilling to be seen nude because of their fear of being ridiculed about genital size. Understand the fears of men and women that they will be hit on by the trolling nude males in nude settings. Imagine the anxieties of parents who are fearful that their kids might become victims of perverted nude men. All real perceptions of the conscious mind.
So how does this relate to nudism/naturism and being clothes free? I think the nudism is one way that human beings are unconsciously seeking to reconnect with the collective unconscious. I beleive the more we can understand this deep psychological tension in society, the more relaxed we will become about clothes free living and develop a more appropriate perspective oh male and female nudity. This understanding may also help to explain the disproportionate representation of men among nudists/naturists overall. We can help to promote a healthier body positive view of nudism if we help people to understand the roots of the conflicting views at work in the human psyche. Let me know what you think?
I didn't read the entire thing because it's lengthy and needs to be broken up into paragraphs but I did read enough to get the gist.
My view of the collective unconscious differs from Jung. I don't believe in a single collective unconscious but I believe that when people gather and socialize, they create a collective unconscious. This collective unconscious is different in different cultures and people who grew up isolated, lack this collective unconscious because it can only be created through socializing.
Having said this, there is a strong element of male nudity that runs through nearly all cultures. At least in western cultures, we got the idea from the greeks that the naked male is brave. The message we received is that Women need the protection of clothing but heroes are men who don't need the protection of clothing. Throughout history, there has been an expectation that soldiers must be willing to set aside personal modesty in order to become heroes. This easily influenced sports as well where athletes are encouraged to wear as little as possible.
In modern times, with the trend toward equalizing the genders, our collective unconscious is suffering a conflict. For men and women to be equal, either women need to become naked heroes or men need to protect their modesty behind clothing. Our collective unconscious has yet to figure out how to make men and women equal without making either men or women no longer men and women.
So yes there is still a collective unconscious message encouraging men to strip down while encouraging women to cover themselves. Women nudists have had to come to grips with that double standard either by rejecting the double standard or by figuring out an alternative way to stay women without having to cover up.
Great perspective! ANd yes, I get and agree with you that there are many "collective consciousness" formed as groups of people form. I've really felt it when people gather for a specific purpose and/or work so in tune with each other to accomplish a task. One that is involved with that can actually feel the consciousness of others all coming together. I have felt it on athletic teams, performing arts groups or other groups with intensity of purpose and desire to come together.
Interesting thoughts on the historic differences between male nudity and female nudity---I like your theory and it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to write and share that. I think this could be a great conversation if people will get into it. I'll also go back and insert paragraph breaks. WHen I posted it, I didn't look to see how dense it is without them.
thanks!
Thank you for the paragraph breaks. I have now read the entire thing.
To a point, I agree that we men are trying to connect with that collective unconscious. We men want to be the naked warriors of old. To us men, there is a deep seeded symbolism of the rite of passage in which boys go out into the wilderness naked and come back as men. There is a lot of societal pressure in modern times to emasculate men, to at least cover if not eliminate masculinity so no one has to see it.
Now this does not mean that we have to eliminate modesty in order to connect with the collective unconscious. We can be naked warriors and still be dignified and respectable. We don't have to be neanderthals to be naked warriors.
A big part of why there is pressure to emasculate men is because some men have acted like neanderthals. Some men have thrown away all modesty, dignity and respectability. Some men have treated women like they were to be clubbed over the head and dragged off to the mancave to serve as a wench. Such men have given the naked warriors a bad reputation. This has created an angry backlash and society has overreacted to the point of not merely trying to eliminate the neanderthal but trying to eliminate masculinity completely. Thus we have bans against single men and no such ban against single women.
We need men to show the world how possible it is to be a dignified naked warrior. When the dignified naked warriors gather together and show what we are really like, then society will accept us and will remove the ban against us.
Thank you guys for your thoughts on the subject, especially as it is a discussion with substance. Personally I follow "Jungian Psychology' even though apparently of as somewhat dated in modern psychology.
Be it called archetype, collective unconscious or even the herd instinct, it is a powerful force in that there is more to life than flesh and blood. I am intrigued by the whole subject matter of what leads some to be nudists and others not. The intrigue is not only in answer to the 'why' for the answer is legion but also in the dynamic of certain people being in a certain place at the same time for supposedly, the same reason. Even then there is the question of bonding with one or more and not with others in the same situation.
I hope more will contribute to this interesting topic.