I had hacked many of the photos on this site, ( not lately though, it was an academic exercise ) and quite frankly, some of them are only described ( kindly ) as "disturbing."
NiMA is absolutely correct in his observations of the photos and what's limiting policing.
The un-paid members who are not friends of questionable members, nor certified ( for whatever reasons ) are totally excluded from being of any help whatever. A failing IMHO.
Without hacking photos again, ( and I have no interest in doing so ) it's impossible to say whether improvement has been made.Some, brought to the fore-front in the forums have since gone away, but the rest are a question at best.Then too, there is the way-back machine, and many of the poor choice photos can be found there still.It may be that TN is being punished for past sins. I know not.
It's also still blindingly apparent that some of the rules ( such as profile photo must be you ) are not enforced, rendering them completely meaningless.
I had hacked many of the photos on this site, ( not lately though, it was an academic exercise ) and quite frankly, some of them are only described ( kindly ) as "disturbing."NiMA is absolutely correct in his observations of the photos and what's limiting policing.The un-paid members who are not friends of questionable members, nor certified ( for whatever reasons ) are totally excluded from being of any help whatever. A failing IMHO.Without hacking photos again, ( and I have no interest in doing so ) it's impossible to say whether improvement has been made.Some, brought to the fore-front in the forums have since gone away, but the rest are a question at best.Then too, there is the way-back machine, and many of the poor choice photos can be found there still.It may be that TN is being punished for past sins. I know not.It's also still blindingly apparent that some of the rules ( such as profile photo must be you ) are not enforced, rendering them completely meaningless.
Wow! I can't believe you have openly admitted hacking someones private pics...Academic Excerise or not...You've been flagged!
As Evan says I could not agree more. He has come up with some valid points about the amount of pictures posted. It has got to be hard to keep up with everything. And I truly believe AANR does the best they can with what they have. When choosing a place to attend I always look at their list of clubs, because as a single woman in the nudist world I want to feel safe when I attend a club or camp. I hate the logo has gone and I hope the differences can be put aside and we can get it back.
It's so sad to see this internecine infighting and political BS within our small community still being perpetrated by AANR, but then again it looks like it's business as usual, and as it's been since the days of Ilsley Boone's rule of the ASA, the organization that AANR grew out of. While they're still the pre-eminent organization of the nudist movement in the US, still do much that's good and worthy of support, like our own government, their bureaucratic structure and leadership can lead to actions such as this, which appear petty. Whether it's truly due to offending pics, which should have been pointed out BEFORE the approved staus was granted, or due to the alleged jelousy and objections of one of TN's competitors, who also happens to be active in AANR's leadership, as well as a candidate for Executive President of the organization, this looks fishy. This does not bode well for the future if these are the type of actions that they're going to continue with, dividing instead of uniting our community. And they wonder why they're losing membership. All they need to do is look at the majority of posts in this forum topic.
While we agree with much of what Evan-here, and others have said, that there are still a number of things that can be done by TT1 to improve this site and make it better, safer, and more enjoyable for all TrueNudists, we feel they're moving in the right direction, and is one of the reasons we're still here. It's pretty evident to those of us who've been here awhile that the growth of this site over NCH has been in part due to the lax oversite and moderation of pics and groups, which eventually led to TT1's initiation of his TrueSwinger's site to help direct those into that lifestyle away from here.The fact that TN was granted the "approved" status, but then rescinded allegedly due to existing offending pics, show there's still work to be done.
We suggest to those of you who have, or are considering, withdrawing your support of AANR, to consider throwing that support towards the Naturist Society, or the Naturist Action Committee.
In our experience they're a much more responsive, grass-roots type organization devoted to protecting nudists rights on our beaches, private and public lands, as opposed to the landed clubs which AANR was formed around, and continues to favor.
Case in point: Almost from the beginning, our non-landed club decided to do background checks and run all prospective members through sexual predator and felony databases in order to help protect our members and weed out those bringing the wrong agenda in. Over 5 yrs. ago we went to the leadship of both AANR and TNS and recommended that they do the same.
TNS immediately agreed, began and continues to run checks on their members. After a few yrs. of running the proposal through various committees, AANR decided to leave it up to each individual resort/club to do. In effect, this means that to this day, any sexual predator can send in his money to AANR national and be given a AANR membership card which gains him admittance to any resort not following up with a background check.
Another example: AANR hosts regional and national conventions around the country. These conventions are open to all members, but in order to get anything done during the business portion of the convention, you'd better be up on your Robert's Rules of Order, and have sufficent political support for your position, common sense sometimes notwithstanding.
TNS also holds regional conventions which they call "Gatherings" around the country. While there are always a number of workshops and presentations on various topics about the naturist lifestyle, one of the highlights of each Gathering is the Town Hall meeting for all who wish to attend. Everyone is given an opportunity to ask questions of the leadership, or to voice their opinion on what the Naturist Society is doing right and wrong, and give suggestions on how to improve. It's not uncommon to see suggestions implemented immediately, we've seen it happen more than once.
Ultimately, we believe that our sub-culture is still so small, and still faces so much negative pressure from those opposed to, afraid, or ignorant of our beliefs that both AANR and TNS are still deserving of our support, as both organizations do good things to help protect and promote our lifestyle. Both organizations are still made up of humans though, and as such can unfortunately get caught up in petty politics, and lose sight of the big picture, instead of uniting together in common cause. You can choose to withhold your support of these organizations, or you can work to try and change and improve them. We choose the latter. As countless others have proved throughout the ages, freedom is often not pretty, clean, or easy.
This thread leads into an interesting underlying question on the modern relevance of AANR philosophy, in general: In this age of greater tolerance, self expression, and personal freedom, why would AANR be in decline among younger generations? How can it be that Americans raised in the 40s/50s/60s are *more* inclined towards nudism vs. those of brought up in the more socially liberal 70s/80s/90s?
Politically incorrect speculation: Is it possible the AANR / TN premise of natural enjoyment of 100% asexual nudity was never as broad or pure as indicated? That for many visitors to traditional nudist venues/websites -- I'm not saying all, for those of you "true" nudists -- there's been a titillating element of voyerism or exhibitionism, whether it's visibly apparent or not?
In other words, since the Internet makes life easier for voyeurs and exhibitionists to have their fun outside nudist venues, that could explain a lot of AANR participation diminishing. Splitting TS out from TN was a fine idea, and while I don't know if TS has become a more active site than TN, if so that could be a proof point for this theory.
Fwiw, I've also thought the label "swingers" pulls the pendulum too far the other direction, i.e. exhibitionism isn't inherently "swinging". Those who've see me on TS know I'm not AANR-minded by a long shot, but in getting to know people on both TN and TS, there are a lot of us who enjoy a middle ground lifestyle between being rigidly non-sexual and public orgies. Many younger guys tell me they go nude at home and want to try social nudism, but
fear the erection ban, despite that experienced nudist standby to
"just roll over" or "cover with a towel". (Ironically, I've also heard from many women (and men) who say they have no issue seeing hardons.)
Again, none of this is to argue either AANR or TN are too restrictive, rather just food for thought whether younger generations simply see the sexual taboos of traditional nudism as outdated, relative to the new openness of the Internet era. (Lastly another factor I suspect explains declining nudism is that so many young Americans are now overweight and obese, they're ashamed of how they look naked, but that's a complex topic for another forum.)
I look forward to hearing others' perspectives. :)
As a newbie to the world of organized social nudity, I did not join TN (certified and paid, within the first 3 days) because of an AANR logo.
I joined on the recommendation of a trusted friend. His opinion means more to me than any number of "Trusted site" seals of of approval.
Just my .05 cents worth (inflation, don't ya know), your mileage may vary.
There do seem to be some incongruences from TT1, with regard to "provocative" photos.
The two statements "I believe we do a pretty good job at moderating and removing these pictures" and "Our site has the most advanced moderation techniques, every single picture is seen by a moderator, and users have the ability to flag anything that sneaks through". One seems to fly in the face of the other? If as stated they have been seen by a moderator, why were they allowed? It is a fact, that so many photos here are in breach of the rules and yes many of those are flagrant breach's, that members have slowed and some stopped flagging at all. There is little point in flagging all but blatant erections it seems.
Clearly from the 1st statement Tn could do better and in my opinion, it matters not what our competition does. We are here for Truenudists! lets stop the bitching and look at ways to improve our site.
And as I have said before - when it does improve, I shall again become a paid member.
I think Drew Sea has one of the best points. It seems silly to me that an organization that already supportsthe "free" lifestyle of nudity would have a problem with others being more free than they. No wonder the younger generation doesn't want to be a part of the "nudist" lifestyle. There's too much petty bickering and not enough enjoyment of the freedom that should come with nudity. I didn't join this site because of AANR, and I certainly won't leave because of their rejection. However, as one who enjoys nudity and the FREEDOM that comes with it, or should come with it, can i ask that we not have prudish policing in amongst those who have already chosen what society calls a "deviant" lifestyle? As nudists we're already considered different, so let's unite and celebrate how each of us views living nude differently - respecting those differences but not judging each other for them -instead of attacking one another.
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