Social nudity and modesty.
I was having a chat with an online buddy not long ago, just shooting the breeze about our wives. And he surprised me a bit by relating to me his wife's "modest ways" (considering they've been nudists for 20-30 years).
She is nude mostly to swim. She does not hang out in the hot-tub. They camp; and she wears a sarong around the campground (or goes topless). If someone approaches her to chat and she happens to be lounging semi-nude, she goes into ""cross guard" (that's what I call "legs crossed and arms crossed over chest").
And I thought: "shouldn't someone who has been regularly visiting nudist resorts and beaches - for decades - have dropped their modesty along the way?!"
And my second thought was: "maybe social nudity isn't for everyone; even seasoned nudists."
There are many factors that come into play when it comes to comfort being naked around others; ranging from personality types to body-image. But there are plenty of introverts that are social nudists; and plenty of people with low body-acceptance that are as well. So is there another - superseding - factor in the equation? So I look to my wife; who made the transition from modest to social nudist. She can be a bit introverted; and she doesn't have the best body-image. Yet she will spend most of her time at the resort socializing nude. So how did she end up differing so much from my buddy's wife; who has some of the same personal characteristics?
It takes a "different" mindset to confidently "stand naked" in front of other people. Non-nudists often believe that it takes "an ounce of exhibitionism." But at least in my wife's case, it was something more along the lines of an "openness to experience."
Social nudity isn't always the "easiest thing." It doesn't always happen while sitting comfortably in a lounge chair. Sometimes the person talking to you initiates a conversation while you're showering, applying sunscreen, hiking, etc... I've had conversations with naked people standing over me; and vice-versa. Or recently even while in front of me hiking uphill. My wife has chatted with friends while sitting on the top ledge of the hot tub naked, 3 feet away from them. You have to be "open to the experience" to not find it absolutely daunting to be openly naked in front of someone while interacting with them. Without that, I can understand why some nudists would avoid being so "exposed."
Anyway...just a thought.
While we are children we are taught to differentiate what is appropriate from what is not. Most of us learned that having others see us nude is somehow inappropriate. Some of us realize that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with being seen nude and are quite comfortable being nude in the presence of others, but there are those who are so thoroughly indoctrinated with the nudity-is-bad concept that they can never be comfortable while nude among others.
My wife can struggle with social nudity at times. She's an introvert and as stated above, was brought up with ideas that "good girls, ladies" do not do certain things. We both joke that since we began dating at 16, I've pretty much ruined her. All I did was get her to try things she probably would have never done. She is thankful for that and figures if she hadn't done these things, she would have led a very boring life.
Nudism came quite easily to her on our wedding weekend. She enjoyed not wearing a thing from our wedding night on a Thursday all the way until that Sunday evening. That Friday morning, still naked, I mentioned that we should live like this all the time. She replied something along the lines of she'd love it but we'd have to wear clothes sometimes. Living that way was one thing but when I mentioned joining a "colony" (this was almost 50 years ago), she was not willing to do that. The thought of her being naked and me wanting to be naked with other naked people went against a lot that she was taught those first 20 years before marrying me. Those are difficult teachings to try and dispel and work through.
When we visited the nude beach for the first time, she was okay getting naked but didn't want to meet anyone. She was content being nude with me on a beach with a few hundred other nude people, but that close, intimate contact was not in her wheelhouse, at all, ever. It took until our second year of visiting the beach a half dozen times the first year and nearly that many times the second year that she was okay with me bringing this couple over to meet her. She still sat in her chair and covered her lap with a sarong but was topless. We became friends with this couple and another couple with 3 kids that frequented the beach many times we were there.
Social nudism was fine for my wife at the beach. These new friends suggested we visit a "resort" in Palm Springs, CA. It was an hour drive for both of us and we met there. This was new for both couples, in that, we seemed fine with being naked on the beach with 300 other nude people but at a small resort with less than 40 people, it was a little too intimate for my wife and the other woman friend. They could be watched on the beach and not really notice but being seen in a more intimate setting got both of them thinking about all that upbringing and the legs crossed, the sarongs covered some of their nakedness. Being topless was not an issue but their uncovered laps, even though all the other women at the resort were completely uncovered, still made them feel uneasy.
It took till after lunch, which we ordered in, and some complimentary wine provided by the resort that the ladies dropped their inhibitions enough to realize what we guys had said, to be true. "No one is watching you, staring at you, paying extra attention to you." That may not have been entirely true but both women let their hair down, so to speak, and the sarongs and really enjoyed their time there and began to socialize. As we left for dinner downtown, they both commented how they wished they had achieved those comfortable feelings much, much earlier in our visit.
Di is still an introvert. She enjoys the co-ed outdoor showers but won't carry on conversations with others. She'll stop momentarily to talk with some in a lounge chair if they ask her a question. It's not a lengthy conversation but she can be social. Asked why she's still not comfortable after all these years of being a nudist/social nudist, she just says, "all those teachings by her mother have stuck with me more than I like." She continues working on it. It's strange that she's more comfortable, more social in smaller, more intimate social nude settings than with 100's of other nude people. 50 years as nudists and over 30 years as active social nudists. Di still struggles with social nudity and modesty, at times.
Yeah. Modesty being "hard-wired" is quite common. For some, like the guy I mentioned's wife, it is nearly unreversible. For others, it is a little more fluid; with some situations/settings "triggering" modesty, but not so much in other situations.
My wife was in a "situation" at our resort last summer where her modesty was "triggered." We'd just come back from vacation and our friend, who was sitting by the lake with our other friends, was overjoyed to see us after a few weeks. She immediately jumped up, pulled my wife next to her for a hug, and then proceeded to ask her about our trip. And my wife found herself standing naked in front of a lounging group of friends - and a couple of strangers - going through a "rundown" of our trip. Afterwards, when she sat besides me, she gave me an "ugh..." and an eye-roll.
Now...my wife being naked around these very same people was nothing new to her. But being the "center of attention", while standing "full-frontal naked" right in front of a group of very attentive listeners, was a step beyond her ability to ignore her "hard-wired" sense of modesty.
Most nudists will learn how to "bend" their sense of modesty to "accommodate" the situation or setting they're in. But I would guess it never entirely goes away. Even our "least modest friends" (the kind who socialize naked with no apparent self-consciousness of how "exposed" they might be while interacting) will sometimes have "moments of modesty" for no apparent cause.
My wife can struggle with social nudity at times. She's an introvert and as stated above, was brought up with ideas that "good girls, ladies" do not do certain things. We both joke that since we began dating at 16, I've pretty much ruined her. All I did was get her to try things she probably would have never done. She is thankful for that and figures if she hadn't done these things, she would have led a very boring life.Nudism came quite easily to her on our wedding weekend. She enjoyed not wearing a thing from our wedding night on a Thursday all the way until that Sunday evening. That Friday morning, still naked, I mentioned that we should live like this all the time. She replied something along the lines of she'd love it but we'd have to wear clothes sometimes. Living that way was one thing but when I mentioned joining a "colony" (this was almost 50 years ago), she was not willing to do that. The thought of her being naked and me wanting to be naked with other naked people went against a lot that she was taught those first 20 years before marrying me. Those are difficult teachings to try and dispel and work through.When we visited the nude beach for the first time, she was okay getting naked but didn't want to meet anyone. She was content being nude with me on a beach with a few hundred other nude people, but that close, intimate contact was not in her wheelhouse, at all, ever. It took until our second year of visiting the beach a half dozen times the first year and nearly that many times the second year that she was okay with me bringing this couple over to meet her. She still sat in her chair and covered her lap with a sarong but was topless. We became friends with this couple and another couple with 3 kids that frequented the beach many times we were there.Social nudism was fine for my wife at the beach. These new friends suggested we visit a "resort" in Palm Springs, CA. It was an hour drive for both of us and we met there. This was new for both couples, in that, we seemed fine with being naked on the beach with 300 other nude people but at a small resort with less than 40 people, it was a little too intimate for my wife and the other woman friend. They could be watched on the beach and not really notice but being seen in a more intimate setting got both of them thinking about all that upbringing and the legs crossed, the sarongs covered some of their nakedness. Being topless was not an issue but their uncovered laps, even though all the other women at the resort were completely uncovered, still made them feel uneasy.It took till after lunch, which we ordered in, and some complimentary wine provided by the resort that the ladies dropped their inhibitions enough to realize what we guys had said, to be true. "No one is watching you, staring at you, paying extra attention to you." That may not have been entirely true but both women let their hair down, so to speak, and the sarongs and really enjoyed their time there and began to socialize. As we left for dinner downtown, they both commented how they wished they had achieved those comfortable feelings much, much earlier in our visit.Di is still an introvert. She enjoys the co-ed outdoor showers but won't carry on conversations with others. She'll stop momentarily to talk with some in a lounge chair if they ask her a question. It's not a lengthy conversation but she can be social. Asked why she's still not comfortable after all these years of being a nudist/social nudist, she just says, "all those teachings by her mother have stuck with me more than I like." She continues working on it. It's strange that she's more comfortable, more social in smaller, more intimate social nude settings than with 100's of other nude people. 50 years as nudists and over 30 years as active social nudists. Di still struggles with social nudity and modesty, at times.
I understand a mother's teaching sticking with someone.
Took me until I was 30 to stop wearing a shirt to bed and 6 more to ditch the shorts because my mother always said that the only proper way for men to sleep was wearing 2 piece pajamas!
Modesty is a tricky concept. In the contemporary US it generally means to keep yourself hidden from nudity. That implies that nudity is a form of exhibitionism, calling attention to yourself. But there was a double standard previously where US males were taught that modesty was acting like you're no different than anyone else and have nothing to hide. Everyone (males) swam naked and modesty was getting over it and jumping in. That was never the case with females in the US. The origins of the word modest means unadorned and simple. The most modest clothes are indeed none from that perspective.
As far as resorts, they can be strange places with a lot of people who may have nothing in common other than being naked. Many seem to strictly adhere to unwritten rules that are more clique sense than common sense. Beaches are more that you take them or leave them as they are and more comfortable for me.
A little anecdote occurred earlier this month that made me think back to this topic.
My wife and I were at our resort for a long weekend. We were joined by two other couple-friends. As usual we pulled our lounge chairs together and sat in a semi-circle formation. Day 1 went ok; Day 2 was different. We were sitting at the picnic table eating lunch when I noticed my wife's mood seemed to be gradually deteriorating. This seemed to coincide with one of our friends standing directly in front of us prepping her meal while chatting with us. My wife walked away in a huff after finishing lunch. When we got back to our lounge chair she shared her frustration.
For the past 1.5 days, we'd been involved in close social interactions; not just with our friends but also with some of the other people we've come to know at the resort. Some of our friends are very comfortable with nudity; which is to say very much uninhibited. Socialization had occurred almost non-stop - including while lounging legs open or standing directly in front of - or over - one another. Within a few short feet of each other. While eating lunch, with our friend standing "meal-prepping" and her labia in full view directly across the table, my wife reached a limit. Too much "in her face exposure."
It can be a tricky situation. Obviously we want our friends to feel comfortable around us in whatever physical state they happen to be in. And vice-versa. But we're not all at the same "level" of uninhibition/modesty. And I would add: especially women.
My wife is comfortable with what I call "dynamic exposure": i.e. quickly bending over to pick something up, climbing out of the pool/hot-tub, applying sunscreen while chatting, etc... But not so much "static exposure": i.e. just sitting standing in front of someone for an extended period of time with genitals at eye level.
As an uninhibited social nudist myself, I still always try to be mindful of other people's body-language. If I'm standing in front of someone dangling while interacting, and I see their eyes darting all over the place or clamming up, it's time to move on quick or adopt a different stance. They can sit/stand however they want; but I'm going to be mindful of their comfort level. I'm not going to take for granted that just because they're naked, they're as uninhibited as I am.
To other couples, I would recommend just paying attention to your spouse's body language in social situations. Sometimes partners will push themselves to "look confident" but actually be overwhelmed. As I did with my wife, it may be time to create some distance and not be in "people's faces" for extended periods of time.
So many interesting insights to this thread. I do wonder if part of the differences between men and women (apart from internal thoughts and feelings) is that men have to make an effort to hide their genitalia while women's are mostly more hidden unless a conscious (or unconscious) is made to expose more. Or perhaps the proximity to the meal table is sometimes enough.
For me, mt only example is when I reach the C/O sign. I generally like to strip off right there but if others a closeby (such as walking in not far behind) I may not do ao until I've found a spot. I'll even strip before the sign if it means I'll avoid such a moment. I've read of many other instances on this site regarding stripping off out of sight of others even if then returning fully nude
Actions
Back to TopicsReply to TopicShare this topic
Get paid just by sending us users/traffic.
Signup takes seconds, start now!
Signup as an affiliate!